TIANG JEMURAN/KAYU PALANG adalah "SALIB"....???? BULLSHIT itu...!!

aku tunggu kau dikantor depag kalau kau berani debat dengan aku, biar aku undang wartawan buat menyiarkannya. apa berani kau?

mang odoy wrote:

pantas saja kau bau amis, lagi dilaut kau, masih bau kencur pantas saja tidak berani datang kekantor depag

..ahhhh..KAU iniiiii..... :D

kalau kau cuma berani ngomong disini, berarti kau sama saja seperti iblis, kapan kau mau datang berdebat dengan aku dikantor depag?

mang odoy wrote:

kalau kau cuma berani ngomong disini, berarti kau sama saja seperti iblis, kapan kau mau datang berdebat dengan aku dikantor depag?

:D

Sudahlah kauuu...kalo memang tidak BERANI debat disini sama aku....

Thanks for your kindly attention.....let's wait n see..how The Depag will reply to my invitation....
You....just sit down and relax in the corner...having a cup of coffe Torabika 3 in one...smoking Jisamsu cigarettes... oke babe...??? :D

Bye for now... I will not reply your posting unless it serious one..

Wasalam,

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Bejat wrote:

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Ada Yang Bisa Nyanggah???

Bejat wrote:

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Ada Yang Bisa Nyanggah???

sabda alam wrote:

Bejat wrote:

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Ada Yang Bisa Nyanggah???

walah...ruwet temen...sorry ilmuku sebatas biji kurma....liat2 aja bro...

sabda alam wrote:

Bejat wrote:

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Ada Yang Bisa Nyanggah???

walah...ruwet temen...sorry ilmuku sebatas biji kurma....liat2 aja bro...

Bejat wrote:

sabda alam wrote:

Bejat wrote:

hamba tuhan1 wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@MUSLIM MAYORITAS - KATHOLIK - PROSTESTAN dan TEMAN TEMAN

http://earlychristians.xanga.com/

Did Jesus Die on a Stake ?

Many scholars believe that Jesus died on an upright Stake rather than a "cross" -

According to a literal translation of the bible Jesus died on a "tree" or "stake" - and NOT
on a cross. Both of the words used to describe his execution "stauros" and "xylon" are literally translated as tree or stake, and never had any other meaning. The word "cross" did not appear in any Bible translation, until Rome adopted the Cross of the pagans.


"his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God..."
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us;
for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree. "
(Galatians 3:13)(ASV)-BibleGateway

"A stauros was a mere stake, and horrible to contemplate, it was used in the cruelest fashion to execute criminals and other persons..."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

FIRST - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE APOSTLES HAD TO SAY :

If a contemporary artist had stood before the dying Jesus on Golgotha, he might have left us an authentic portrayal of that highly significant event. But no artwork of this kind
is in existence, and certainly later tradition is not conclusive. Nevertheless, we do have the recorded words of an eyewitness.

Who was he?

As Jesus looked down from that implement of torture and death, he saw "the disciple whom he loved," the apostle John. To him Jesus committed the care of his mother, Mary. (John 19:25-30)

So, John was there....!!!
He knew whether Jesus died on a cross or not.

What did John Say ?

To designate the instrument of Christ's death,
John used the Greek word "stawros".
(John 19:17, 19, 25)

In classical Greek, 'stawros' denotes the same thing that it does in the common Greek of the Christian Scriptures - primarily an upright stake or pole with no crossbar.

'stauros': "Literally an upright stake, pale, or pole...
As an instrument of execution."
-The Jnterpreter's Dictionary of the Bible

"The Greek..... 'stauros', properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling,
on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in]
a piece of ground.... Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and this always remained the more prominent part."
-The Imperial Bible Dictionary.

Most of the time, the noun stauros (stake) and the verb stauroo (impale)
are used in connection with Jesus Christ's death. These two words appear 74 times in the New Testament.

The New Testament uses the word 'tree' five times to refer to Christ's death. The references are found in Acts 5:30, 10:39, 13:29, Galatians 3:13 and 1 Peter 2:24.

In rendering Deuteronomy 21:22, 23 ("stake") and Ezra 6:11 ("timber"), the translators of the Septuagint Version employed the Greek word xylon, the same term that Paul used at Galatians 3:13. It was also the one employed by Peter, when he said that Jesus "bore our sins in his own body upon the stake." (1 Pet. 2:24)

"When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb." (Acts 13:29)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem.
They killed him by hanging him on a tree." (Acts 10:39)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. "
(1Peter 2:24)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead-- whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. "
(Acts 5:30)(NIV)-BibleGateway


CROSS - IS A WRONG TRANSLATION OF "STAUROS"

"The New Testament word 'cross' is an incorrect translation of the Greek word stauros. The word "stauros" referred to any upright wooden stake firmly fixed in the ground. A stauros could serve a variety of purposes as, for example, a pole in a picket fence. The word stauros also represented a pointed stake used for impalement of human beings.
This was an ancient form of punishment used to publicly display the bodies of executed criminals."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

"It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word 'stauros' as 'cross' - when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue...
that was... not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles."
-The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896) Pp. 23, 24

"A tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words "cross" and "crucify." These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament. These words are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo."
-The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology


NOW - LET'S LOOK AT WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE TO SAY :

Was Christ Hung on a Cross ?

TO MANY millions of people the answer to this question seems as simple as the three-letter word "Yes". To serious students of both ancient history and the Bible the answer is even simpler, as simple as the two-letter word "No!"

It is common knowledge in this enlightened age that the Bible was not first set down in English. Consequently, to settle the question as to whether Christ was hung on a cross or not - it is necessary to consult the original Hebrew and Greek languages in which the Bible was originally written. Manuscript copies of the original accounts, some of which copies date back to within fifty years of the originals, are available to scholars. Besides these, the original words are defined and explained in dictionaries or lexicons written in modern English. And, in addition, there are dependable encyclopedias, histories, etc.,
to which reference can be made.

"It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as 'cross' in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated 'cross' is always the Greek word [stau·ros']
meaning a 'stake' or 'upright pale.' The cross was NOT originally a Christian symbol;
it is derived from Egypt and Constantine."
-Dual Heritage-The Bible and the British Museum


"There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together
in the form of a cross."
- The Non-Christian Cross; John Denham Parsons

"If Jesus had been executed, mythically or historically, it would NOT have been with outstretched arms on a cruciform structure. Cutner reports that scholars have been aware of the error but have been unable to resist the TRADITIONAL MISTRANSLATION.
In the 18th century - some Anglican bishops recommended eliminating the cross symbol altogether, but they were ignored. There is no cross in early Christian art before the middle of the 5th century."
- Jesus: God, Man, or Myth (The Truth Seeker, 1950)

"Another...tradition of the Church which our fathers have inherited, was the adoption of the words 'cross' and 'crucify'. These words are nowhere to be found in the Greek of the New Testament." (Koster, p. 29).
-Koster, C.J. Come Out of Her My People. Johannesburg, RSA: Institute for Scripture Research, 1998.

"Homer uses the word 'stauros' - of an ordinary pole or stake, or a single piece of timber. And this is the meaning and usage of the word throughout the Greek classics.
It never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always of one piece alone. Hence the use of the word 'xulon' [which means a timber]
in connection with the manner of our Lord's death, and rendered tree in Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Gal. 3:13; and 1 Pet. 2:24.
. . .There is nothing in the Greek N.T. even to imply two pieces of timber. . . The evidence is thus complete, that the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake,
and not on two pieces of timber placed at any angle."
- The Companion Bible, published by the Oxford University Press.
On page 186 in the "Appendixes"

Prophecy Points To A "TREE" - NOT A Cross

"you must not leave his body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury him that same day,
because anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse. "
(Deuteronomy 21:23)(NIV)-BibleGateway

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written : "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."
(Galatians 3:13)(NIV)-BibleGateway

Hence the Jewish Christians would hold as accursed and hateful the stake upon which Jesus had been executed. Says the celebrated Jewish authority, Moses Mai.mon'i.des, of the 12th century: 'They never hang upon a tree which clings to the soil by roots; but upon a timber uprooted, that it might not be an annoying plague: for a timber upon which anyone has been hanged is buried; that the evil name may not remain with it and people should say, "This is the timber on which so-and-so was hanged."
So the stone with which anyone has been stoned; and the sword, with which the one killed has been killed; and the cloth or mantle with which anyone has been strangled; all these things are buried along with those who perished.' "
- (Apud Casaub. in Baron. Exercitat. 16, An. 34, Num. 134)

" 'Consequently since a man hanged was considered the greatest abomination- the Jews also hated more than other things the timber on which he had been hanged, so that they covered it also with earth, as being equally an abominable thing.' "
- Kalinski in Vaticinia Observationibus Illustrata, page 342

========================================================================

ESSAY diatas....HANYA AKAN DIMENGERTI oleh Muslim atow Kristiani yang BERPIKIRAN KRITIS....!!! bagi yang sudah merasa cukup dengan PENGERTIAN akan kata SALIB/MENYALIB yang didapat secara TURUN TEMURUN....essay diatas cuman bikin pusing kepala.....(apalagi kalo jeblok bahasa inggrisnya... :04: )

Saya masih menunggu TANGGAPAN dari pihak DEPARTEMEN AGAMA RI...terkait UNDANGAN saya bagi beliau beliau untuk mampir dimari.....NGOBROL sama "mang odoy"....

Mudah2an beliau beliau ini ada NIAT untuk meluruskan PEMERKOSAAN KATA "SHALABUU-YUSLABU-USALLIB dalam Al-Quran yang berarti "MENYALIB"...yang telah DISAMA ARTIKAN dengan kata ESTAUROO dalam Manuskrip Asli Kitab Kanon...yang oleh KAMPRET KAMPRET LEMBAGA ALKITAB INDONESIA telah diartikan "MENYALIB" atow oleh para PENGINJIL INTERNASIONAL telah diartikan TO CRUCIFY....sehingga bagi orang orang AWAM...ketika membaca Surah An-Nisa 157...dan membaca "MEREKA TIDAK MENYALIBNYA"....maka dari sini dimulai KESALAHPEMAHAMAN yang telah berlangsung berabad abad lamanya....

Kita tunggu...sampai dimana PERAN dari DEPAG RI menanggapi UNDANGAN dari "mang odoy"....


Wasalam,

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

Ada Yang Bisa Nyanggah???

walah...ruwet temen...sorry ilmuku sebatas biji kurma....liat2 aja bro...

sama nih...
cuma bisa nonton doang...
karena ilmu ane baru sebesar biji rambutan doank...

BOTELHEM wrote:Hal yang perlu dihindari dalam berdiskusi adalah jauhilah sikap arogan, merasa dirinya yg paling benar, mempertahankan pendapat dan membangga2 kan pendapat itu sebagai bentuk pendapat yg tidak pernah dipikirkan oleh orang lain..
dan menyebarlusakannya/mendebat/mendiskusikannya kemana-mana tanpa ada bimbingan dari yg lebih ahli,..jika seseorang tersebut MENGAKU bukan Ustadz, cendekiawan dsb...karena saya adalah level biasa..dan yg berarti ilmu kita belumlah cukup..sehingga adalah anjuran untuk bertanya kepada yg tinggi ilmunya sbb...

ينبغي للمستفتي أنْ يسأل من يثق بعلمه ودينه

“Hendaknya penanya itu bertanya kepada orang yang ia percayai keilmuannya dan kebagusan agamanya“

Dari Abu 'Imran al-Jauni bahwa 'Abdullah bin Rabah al-Anshari menulis surat kepadaku bahwa 'Abdullah bin 'Amr r.a. berkata, "Pada suatu hari aku datang pagi-pagi buta ke kediaman Rasulullah. Beliau mendengar suara dua orang laki-laki sedang bertengkar tentang suatu ayat (Mudah2-an tidak terjadi pada kita yang sedang berdiskusi ini bukan bertengkar tentang suatu ayat). Rasulullah saw. keluar menemui kami dengan kemarahan yang tampak pada rona wajah beliau, lalu berkata, 'Sesungguhnya telah binasa ummat sebelum kalian karena perselisihan mereka tentang al-Kitab'," (HR Muslim [2666])..

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).


mksih

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

http://interlinearbible.org/john/19.htm

Πιλᾶτος καὶ ἔθηκεν ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ· ἦν δὲ γεγραμμένον· Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων

pilatos kai ethēken epi tou staurou ēn de gegrammenon iēsous o nazōraios o basileus tōn ioudaiōn

http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=99114&context=lsj&action=hw-list-click

σταυρός, ὁ, upright pale or stake, σταυροὺς ἐκτὸς ἔλασσε διαμπερὲς ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας Od.14.11, cf. Il.24.453, Th.4.90, X. An.5.2.21; of piles driven in to serve as a foundation, Hdt.5.16, Th.7.25.

II. cross, as the instrument of crucifixion, D.S.2.18, Ev.Matt.27.40, Plu.2.554a; ἐπὶ τὸν σ. ἀπάγεσθαι Luc.Peregr.34; σ. λαμβάνειν, ἆραι, βαστάζειν, metaph. of voluntary suffering, Ev.Matt.10.38, Ev.Luc.9.23, 14.27: its form was represented by the Greek letter T, Luc.Jud.Voc.12.

b. pale for impaling a corpse, Plu.Art.17.

http://commontruth.com/CrossOrStake.html


Cross Vs. Stake Vs. Tree
KAYU PALANG vs KAYU LURUS vs POHON

All scriptural references are from the King James Version unless otherwise noted
Semua referensi alkitab diambil dari The King James Version kecuali yang dikasih catatan khusus.

Please be aware:
We were informed of important changes in websites that were referenced in this essay. Therefore, we have updated the information accordingly. Although this doesn't change the outcome of the essay, we felt it necessary to let you know that this may be a little different from the last time you viewed it.
God Bless!
Perhatian..!
Kami menginformasikan akan perubahan perubahan penting dalam website yang diinformasikan dalam essay ini. Karenanya, kami telah meng update informasi tersebut secara berkala. Meskipun hal ini tidak merubah hasil (keluaran) dari esai ini, kami rasa itu penting untuk anda ketahui bahwa hal tersebut mungkin sedikit berbeda dari saat anda terakhir membuka website ini.


INTRODUCTION
Perkenalan


There are varying beliefs regarding the device used for Christ's execution. Some believe Christ was killed using a simple, upright pole, others believe he was executed on a cross, and still others believe he was killed on an actual living tree. Each group presents evidence in support of their chosen belief. Though we at CommonTruth.com do not consider the device of Christ's death to be an issue of doctrine (we believe his actual death is a much more important issue ), we realize that some Christian groups do regard this as very important.
Ada banyak jenis kepercayaan sehubungan dengan ALAT YANG DIPAKE untuk eksekusi Yesus. Beberapa pihak percaya bahwa Yesus dibunuh menggunakan KAYU LURUS, yang lain percaya (meyakini) bahwa Yesus dieksekusi pada sebuah CROSS-KAYU PALANG, dan masih banyak yang lainnya yang percaya bahwa Yesus dibunuh di sebuah Pohon . Masing masing pihak menyajikan data dan fakta dalam mendukung kepercayaan pilihannya. Walowpun, kami di Common Truth.com, tidak menganggap alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Yesus sebagai Persoalan Doktrin (kami percaya kematian Yesus adalah hal yang lebih penting), kami menyadari bahwa beberapa golongan Kristen sangat menghormati hal kematian Yesus ini.


Therefore, since our job is to present scriptural truth, we have chosen to tackle this topic for those who are unsettled on the issue.
Oleh sebab itu, karena tugas kami untuk menyajikan KEBENARAN ALKITAB, kami telah memilih untuk mentackel topik ini untuk mereka yang masih ragu ragu mengenai persoalan ini.



DIFFERENCES IN DOCTRINE
Perbedaan-perbedaan dalam Doktrin


To start with, in the New Testament most bibles refer to "The Cross" as the device Messiah / Christ was killed on. Some of the places in which this is mentioned is at Matthew 10:38, Matthew 27:32, 42 and Mark 8:34. Other bible versions use the term "Stake" instead. Versions that use the word "stake" include: The Complete Jewish Bible, The Scriptures (ISR), The New World Translation, and The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition. The Bible also refers to Jesus / Yeshua as being hung on a tree (Galatians 3:13) (also Acts 5:30 and 1 Peter 2:24 in King James Version).
Untuk memulai, dalam Perjanjian Baru, kebanyakan dari Kitab kitab tersebut merujuk "The Cross-Kayu Palang" sebagai alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Yesus. Dibeberapa bagian dalam kitab tersebut diantaranya : Matius 10:38, Matius 27:32,42 dan Markus 8:34.

A. Versi Bible yang lain menggunakan kata "STAKE" sebagai gantinya. Versi bible yang memakai kata STAKE, diantaranya :

1. The Complete Jewish Bible, http://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/

2. The Scriptures (ISR) http://www.isr-messianic.org/

3. The New World Translation http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm

4. The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition http://www.assembliesofyahweh.com/SSBE.htm


B. Bible yang merefer ke Yesus yang digantung pada sebuah POHON :

1. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203:13&version=NASB#en-NASB-29116

Galatians 3:13 (New American Standard Bible)

13.Christ (A)redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "(B)CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON (C)A TREE"--


2. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%205:30&version=KJV

Acts 5:30 (King James Version)

30.The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

3. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24&version=KJV

1 Peter 2:24 (King James Version)

24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.



Since there isn't complete agreement among the various bible versions, it is important to check the original language used in the bible in order to know which meaning is originally intended. This is where we need to use an interlinear bible text.
Karena tidak ada keseragaman diantara versi versi bible tersebut, sangat penting untuk memeriksa BAHASA ASLI yang digunakan dalam bible agar mengetahui arti yang mana yang sebenernya di maksud. Karenannya kita butuh menggunakan sebuah INTERLINEAR BIBLE TEXT.


TRANSLATION MAKES A DIFFERENCE
Terjemahan membuat sebuah perbedaan.

We used the Interlinear bible at www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/ with their King James Strong's Version to look up the original Greek word for "cross" in the New Testament using the Strong's Concordance. We got this information:

Kami menggunakan Interlinear Bible di http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/ dengan King James Strong Version sebagai sumbernya untuk mencari Kata Asli dalam Bahasa Yunani untuk kata "CROSS-KAYU PALANG" dalam Perjanjian Baru dengan menggunakan Indeks Kuat . Kami mendapatkan informasi berikut ini :

#4716. stauros stow-ros' from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross.

#4716. stauros stow-ros' dari dasar 2476; Sebuah KAYU atow TONGGAK (Lurus), contohnya (khususnya) sebuah TIANG atow PALANG (sebagai alat hukuman mati) , bersifat perlambang atow kiasan, hukuman mati, contohnya self-denial; dengan Implikasi ; penebusan dosa oleh Yesus; Kayu Palang


We also looked up the word "crucify" with the Strong's Concordance, and found this:
Kami juga mencari kata "CRUCIFY " dengan indeks kuat, dan kami menemukan ini :

#4717. stauroo stow-ro'-o from 4716; to impale on the cross; figuratively, to extinguish (subdue) passion or selfishness:--crucify.
#4717. stauroo stow-ro'-o from 4716; merapatkan dan menusuk pada sebuah kayu palang; secara kiasan, mematikan (menaklukkan) hawa nafsu: crucify.

Next we looked up the word "tree" in the Strong's Concordance, and this is what we found:
Selanjutnya kami mencari kata "TREE-POHON" dalam indeks kuat, dan ini yang kami temukan :

#3586. xulon xoo'-lon from another form of the base of 3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication, a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance:--staff, stocks, tree, wood.
#3586. xulon xoo'-lon dari bentuk lain dari dasar 3582; kayu (sebagai kayu bakar atow bahan bangunan); dengan implikasi, sebuah tongkat,pentungan, atow pohon atow bahan kayu lainnya; tongkat, batang,pohon,kayu.

We searched through the interlinear bible at www.scripture4all.org to see the various instances in which xulon was used. In scripture, xulon was used for a variety of meanings, all of which matched any one of the above definitions for "xulon". The word was used when speaking of staves/clubs (Matthew 26:47,55), the device of the Messiah's death (Acts 5:30, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24), and stockades (Acts 16:24), as well as trees (Luke 23:31).

Kami mencarinya melalui The Interlinear Bible di situs www.scripture4all.org untuk melihat bermacam macam contoh penggunaan dari XULAN tersebut. Dalam kitab tersebut, XULON digunakan untuk bermacam macam arti, yang mana kesemuanya cocok dengan salah satu dari definisi kata XULON diatas.

1. Kata XULON tersebut digunakan ketika berbicara tentang PENTUNGAN dalam Matius 26: 47,55 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:47,55&version=NASB

Jesus' Betrayal and Arrest

47(A)While He was still speaking, behold, (B)Judas, one of the twelve, came up accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people.

(47) Waktu Yesus masih berbicara datanglah Yudas, salah seorang dari kedua belas murid itu, dan bersama-sama dia serombongan besar orang yang membawa pedang dan pentung, disuruh oleh imam-imam kepala dan tua-tua bangsa Yahudi.

2. Alat kematian sang Mesiah dalam (Acts 5:30, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24), . http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%205:30,%20Galatians%203:13,%201%20Peter%202:24&version=NASB

30"(A)The God of our fathers (B)raised up Jesus, whom you had (C)put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

(30) Allah nenek moyang kita telah membangkitkan Yesus, yang kamu gantungkan pada kayu saib dan kamu bunuh.

3. Benteng, Tembok pertahanan,Pasung dalam Kisah Para Rasul 16:24 (Acts 16:24), http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2016:24&version=NASB

24. and he, having received such a command, threw them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in (A)the stocks.

(24) Sesuai dengan perintah itu, kepala penjara memasukkan mereka ke ruang penjara yang paling tengah dan membelenggu kaki mereka dalam pasungan yang kuat.

4. Pohon dalam Lukas 23:31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2023:31&version=NASB

31. "For if they do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?"

(31) Sebab jikalau orang berbuat demikian dengan kayu hidup, apakah yang akan terjadi dengan kayu kering?"




GATHERING IT TOGETHER
MENYATUKAN

So far, now, this is what we have: The words "stauros" and "xulon" are both used for references to the device of the Messiah's murder. Both refer to singular wooden devices in some manner. Stauros means stake, pole, or cross; Xulon means beam, stocks, staff, or tree. In the various bible versions, Yeshua is referenced as being put on a cross, stake, or tree. At this point though, there is still no proof as to whether Yeshua was nailed to a simple stake, a living tree, or a two beamed cross. Therefore, let's investigate this further.

Sejauh ini, sekarang, ini yang kita sudah ketahui:

1. Kata STAUROS dan XULON keduanya digunakan untuk menerangkan alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Sang Mesiah, Keduanya merujuk ke KAYU TUNGGAL dalam beberapa hal.
2, STAUROS berarti kayu pancang, tiang, atau salib; XULON berarti balok, batang, tongkat, atau pohon
Dalam berbagai versi Alkitab, Yesus atow Yeshua dihukum diatas kayu palang,kayu pancang/kayu sula, atau pohon. Pada titik ini meskipun, belum ada bukti mengenai apakah Yeshua dipakukan pada sebuah kayu pancang, pohon hidup, kayu palang. Oleh karena itu, mari kita menyelidiki ini lebih lanjut.


SCIENTIFIC PROOF
BUKTI ILMIAH

As for death resulting from being nailed up, the most popular thought is that the Messiah would die of suffocation/asphyxiation. Frederick T. Zugibe, (Adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Colombia University College of Physicians and Surgeons), performed extensive experiments to test this theory: He took volunteers and crucified them (they weren't actually nailed, they were suspended by belts and straps on a sturdily constructed cross). He conducted two variations of crucifixion: One with a suppedaneum (a wooden block upon which toes would be supported, helping a victim stay supported on a cross/stauros ) and one without a suppendanuem. The results can be read at these websites here: http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/Turin2000.htm and http://www.west.net/~shroud/zugibe.htm. These experiments show that a man on a cross would NOT suffocate to death, with or without a suppedaneum.

Adapun kematian akibat dipaku, pendapat yang paling populer adalah bahwa Mesias akan mati lemas / sesak napas. Frederick T. Zugibe, (Adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Colombia University College of Physicians and Surgeons), , melakukan eksperimen yang luas untuk menguji teori ini: Ia mengambil relawan dan crucify mereka (mereka tidak benar-benar dipaku, mereka digantung dengan ikat pinggang dan tali di kayu palang yang kokoh). Dia melakukan dua variasi krusifiksi: Satunya dengan suppedaneum http://www.talktalk.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0012433.html (sebuah balok kayu yang mana si kaki korban bisa menginjaknya, membantu korban tetap tergantung pada sebuah kayu silang/kayu pancang lurus) dan satunya tanpa suppendanuem. Hasil dapat dibaca di situs sini:

1. http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/Turin2000.htm

2. http://www.west.net/~shroud/zugibe.htm

Percobaan ini menunjukkan bahwa seorang pria di KAYU SILANG tidak akan tercekik sampai mati, dengan atau tanpa suppedaneum.


By way of comparison, Hermann Moedder, a doctor of radiology from Austria, carried out an experiment in the 1940's in Cologne, Germany, with medical students. He strapped them with their wrists directly above their heads Within minutes the students grew pale, their lung capacity and blood pressure dropped significantly, and their pulse rates increased. Moedder concluded suffocation would occur in minutes if they were not able to stand and rest. Though we don't have complete information about this experiment, it appears that a suppedaneum wasn't used, neither was a sedile (a block of wood attached to the stauros to support the buttocks slightly). This makes a difference because such devices can act as supports that the victim on the stauros could use for support in the breathing issues involved

Dengan cara perbandingan, Hermann Moedder, seorang dokter radiologi dari Austria, melakukan percobaan di tahun 1940 di Cologne, Jerman, dengan mahasiswa kedokteran. Dia mengikat mereka dengan cara pergelangan tangan di atas kepala mereka Dalam beberapa menit mahasiswa mahasiswa tersebut pucat, kapasitas paru-paru dan tekanan darah turun secara signifikan, dan detak urat nadi mereka meningkat. Moedder menyimpulkan mati lemas akan terjadi dalam beberapa menit jika mereka tidak mampu berdiri dan beristirahat. Meskipun kita tidak memiliki informasi lengkap tentang percobaan ini, tampak bahwa suppedaneum tidak digunakan, tidak juga SEDILE (sebuah balok kayu yang dilekatkan pada stauros untuk mendukung pantat sedikit). Hal ini membuat perbedaan karena perangkat tersebut dapat berperan sebagai pendukung yang mana korban pada stauros bisa menggunakannya sebagai dukungan dalam masalah pernapasan yang terlibat..


Now this is where the comparison of the two experiments is interesting: According to the bible, a crucified man's legs were broken in order to hasten death (John 19:31-32). This would indicate, according to the results of the above mentioned experiments, that Yeshua Messiah and the two robbers were killed on singular poles . Breaking their legs would take away the usefulness of the suppedaneum's support, thus hastening their deaths by suffocation. This would not happen on a cross, according to Dr. Zugibe's experiments.

Sekarang, ini adalah di mana perbandingan dua eksperimen menarik: Menurut Alkitab, kaki seorang pria yang disalibkan itu patah dalam rangka mempercepat kematian

John 19:31 (New American Standard Bible) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2019:31&version=NASB

Care of the Body of Jesus
31Then the Jews, because it was (A)the day of preparation, so that (B)the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a (C)high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


(31) Karena hari itu hari persiapan dan supaya pada hari Sabat mayat-mayat itu tidak tinggal tergantung pada kayu salib--sebab Sabat itu adalah hari yang besar--maka datanglah orang-orang Yahudi kepada Pilatus dan meminta kepadanya supaya kaki orang-orang itu dipatahkan dan mayat-mayatnya diturunkan (Yohanes 19:31-32).

Hal ini mengindikasikan, menurut hasil eksperimen yang disebutkan di atas, bahwa Yeshua Mesias dan dua perampok tewas di tiang tunggal. Mematahkan kaki mereka akan menghilangkan fungsi/kegunaan dari dukungan suppedaneum, dengan demikian mempercepat kematian mereka dengan cara mati lemas. Hal ini tidak akan terjadi di kayu palang, menurut percobaan Dr Zugibe's.




WHAT ABOUT THE SIGN POSTED ON THE BEAM?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN PAPAN TANDA YANG DIPASANG DI KAYU BALOK?

Now we have the matter of the sign posted above the Messiah's head as stated at Matthew 27:37. If the sign was posted above his head, then that would imply a cross, otherwise it would be above his hands, right? According to scripture, the sign said something to the effect of "Yeshua the Nazarene the King of the Jews". This sign was written in three languages: Hebrew, Latin, and Greek (John 19:19-20). Therefore, this couldn't have been a tiny sign. However, we need to understand that we, the readers, are simply assuming what the position of the sign was. All the bible says is that it was above his head, no indication of postion otherwise. It is possible that Yeshua was nailed with his hands straight up, and the sign placed above his head, as indicated by the scriptures, but also slipped in behind his arms. If you hold your hands above your head and look in a mirror you can see that this is a feasible situation.

Sekarang kita memiliki masalah tentang papan tanda yang dipasang di atas kepala Mesias seperti yang dinyatakan di Matius 27:37. Jika papan tanda itu diposting di atas kepalanya, maka itu akan berarti kayu palang, jika tidak tanda itu akan berada di atas tangannya, kan? . Menurut Kitab Suci, papan tanda tersebut menyatakan "Yeshua dari Nazaret Raja orang Yahudi". Papan Tanda ini ditulis dalam tiga bahasa: Ibrani, Latin, dan Yunani (Yohanes 19:19-20). Oleh karena itu, ini tidak mungkin sebuah papan tanda yang kecil. Namun, kita perlu memahami bahwa kita, para pembaca, hanya mengasumsikan dimana posisi papan tanda itu. Semua Alkitab mengatakan bahwa papan tanda tersebut di atas kepalanya.. Kemungkinan Yeshua dipakukan dengan tangan lurus ke atas, dan tanda ditempatkan di atas kepalanya, seperti ditunjukkan oleh Kitab Suci, tetapi juga menyelinap di belakang tangannya. Jika Anda memegang tangan Anda di atas kepala Anda dan lihatlah di cermin, Anda dapat melihat bahwa ini adalah situasi yang mudah.



WHAT ABOUT THE NAILS?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN PAKU?

What about the plurality of nails that were driven into his hands/wrists? (John 20:25). If Yeshua were nailed to a stake, then only one nail would be used to nail his hands/wrists, right? Again, we are assuming only one view. It's reasonable to conclude that a single nail won't support the weight of an adult male. Either the nail would rip out of the pole, or the man's hands would rip off from the nail as the man was hanging there. It seems necessary that multiple nails would be required for a more secure hold.

Bagaimana dengan pluralitas paku yang didorong ke tangannya / pergelangan tangan? (Yohanes 20:25). Jika Yeshua dipaku pada sebuah kayu pancang, maka hanya satu paku yang digunakan untuk memaku tangan / pergelangan tangan, kan? Sekali lagi, kita mengasumsikan hanya satu pandangan. Sangat masuk akal untuk menyimpulkan bahwa sebuah paku tunggal tidak akan mendukung berat seorang pria dewasa. Tidak juga paku tersebut akan merobek tiang, atau tangan orang itu akan robek dari paku dikarenakan orang itu tergantung di sana. Tampaknya perlu bahwa beberapa paku akan diperlukan untuk menahan lebih aman.


WHAT ABOUT THE WEIGHT OF THE CROSS?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN BERAT DARI "CROSS/KAYU PALANG"..??

The bible states that the Messiah carried his stauros to the execution site (Luke 23:26). Although this would also do away with the idea of Yeshua being nailed to a living tree, most people still believe that this was actually just a patibulum - a cross beam for the arms - not the entire cross. But this isn't sensible, because Yeshua told us, according to the interlinear bibles, that we have to carry our own "stauros" (Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 14:27). If we are to translate "stauros" as "cross", then to carry solely the patibulum would be carrying only a part of it, not the whole thing. This would contradict the very thing Yeshua himself told us to do. Also, as seen in scripture, a man named Simon was selected to help Yeshua carry the stauros (Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21). This implies something other than a patibulum. Also, if "stauros" were to be translated as an entire cross, according to some this could weigh approximately 200 - 300 pounds (about 91-136 kilograms) with the main beam weighing in at about 125 -175 pounds (57 - 80 kilograms). This could probably be managed with the two men, however scripture shows that Simon actually took the stauros to carry on his own (Matthew 27:32, Luke 23:26) (Note, the scriptures say he actually bore the stauros, not just simply helped carry it). However, having just the main stake without a patibulum would be much more manageable weight-wise. Of course, people in those days were much hardier because they had more physical labor to perform on a day-to-day basis, but still, 300 pounds is an awful lot for such a man to carry on his back through the streets of Jerusalem and up a hill.

Alkitab menyatakan bahwa Mesias membawa stauros ke lokasi eksekusi (Lukas 23:26). Meskipun ini juga akan menyingkirkan gagasan bahwa Yeshua dipaku ke pohon hidup, kebanyakan orang masih percaya bahwa ini sebenarnya hanya patibulum - sebuah balok silang untuk lengan - bukan kayu palang secara keseluruhan. Tapi ini tidak masuk akal, karena Yeshua mengatakan kepada kita, menurut The Interlinear Bible, bahwa kita harus membawa stauros kita sendiri (Matius 16:24, Markus 8:34, Lukas 14:27). Jika kita ingin menerjemahkan "stauros" sebagai "kayu palang", kemudian membawa patibulum semata, hanya akan membawa sebagian dari itu, bukan semuanya. Hal ini akan bertentangan dengan hal terpenting yang mana Yeshua sendiri mengatakan kepada kita untuk melakukannya. Juga, seperti yang terlihat dalam Kitab Suci, seorang pria bernama Simon dipilih untuk membantu Yeshua membawa stauros (Matius 27:32, Markus 15:21).
Ini berarti sesuatu selain patibulum. Juga, jika "stauros" itu diterjemahkan sebagai “Cross” secara keseluruhan, menurut beberapa keterangan stauros ini beratnya sekitar 200 - 300 pound (sekitar 91-136 kilogram) dengan berat balok utama sekitar 125 -175 pound (57-80 kilogram ). Hal ini mungkin hanya bisa dibawa oleh dua laki-laki, tetapi Kitab Suci menunjukkan bahwa Simon benar-benar mengambil stauros tersebut dan membawanya sendiri (Matius 27:32, Lukas 23:26) (Catatan; tulisan suci mengatakan ia benar-benar memanggul stauros, bukan hanya sekedar membantu membawanya).
Akan tetapi ,dengan hanya membawa TIANG LURUS tanpa patibulum akan jauh lebih mudah membawanya . Tentu saja, orang-orang di masa itu jauh lebih kuat karena mereka lebih kuat secara fisik untuk menjalankan tugas sehari-hari, tapi tetap saja, 300 pon adalah cukup berat untuk orang seperti itu untuk memanggulnya melalui jalan-jalan di Yerusalem dan naik ke atas bukit.




HOW DID "STAKE" BECOME "CROSS"?
BAGAIMANA SEBUAH "STAKE-KAYU PANCANG LURUS" MENJADI "CROSS-KAYU PALANG"?

According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (available here), this is what it says:
Menurut Vine's Expository Dictionary dari Perjanjian Baru (tersedia di sini), ini adalah apa yang dikatakannya:

Noun,# 4716,stauros: denotes, primarily, "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ.

Kata Benda # 4716, stauros: terutama menunjukkan ". SEBUAH KAYU PANCANG LURUS" , Para penjahat tersebut dipaku untuk eksekusi. Baik kata benda dan kata kerja stauroo, "mengikat erat pada sebuah kayu pancang atow tiang," pada awalnya harus dibedakan dari bentuk gerejawi sebagai dua balok lintang "Kayu Palang." Bentuk yang terakhir itu( KAYU PALANG ) berasal di Kaldea kuno, dan digunakan sebagai simbol dari dewa Tammuz (yang dalam bentuk Tau mistik, adalah inisial dari namanya) di negara itu dan daerah sekitarnya, termasuk Mesir. Pada pertengahan abad ke-3 apakah gereja berpijak pada hal tersebut, atau telah meniru, doktrin-doktrin tertentu dari iman Kristen. Dalam rangka meningkatkan prestise dari sistem pagan murtad gerejawi yang diterima ke dalam gereja-gereja terpisah dari regenerasi oleh iman, dan sebagian besar diijinkan untuk mempertahankan tanda tanda pagan mereka dan simbol-simbol. Karena itu Tau atau T, dalam bentuknya yang paling sering, dengan potongan-kayu palang yagn diturunkan, diadopsi sebagai bentuk untuk "tiang palang" Kristus.


As for the Chi, or X, which Constantine declared he had seen in a vision leading him to champion the Christian faith, that letter was the initial of the word "Christ" and had nothing to do with "the Cross" (for xulon, "a timber beam, a tree," as used for the stauros, see under TREE).
Sedangkan untuk Chi, atau X, yang Konstantinus menyatakan ia telah melihat dalam suatu penglihatan yang membawanya menjadi jagoan dalam iman Kristen, bentuk tersebut ( X ) adalah awal dari kata "Kristus" dan tidak ada hubungannya dengan "Kayu palang " (untuk xulon, "sebuah balok kayu, pohon," seperti yang digunakan untuk stauros, lihat penjelasan mengenai POHON).


SO, NOBODY DIED ON A CROSS?
JADI, TAK ADA ORANG YANG MATI DI KAYU PALANG?

We aren't saying that crosses were never used for execution, as execution methods varied according to time period and location. Archaeological finds have shown that sometimes a cross was actually used instead of a simple beam. One of the most famous finds was that of a man named "Yehohanan, son of Hagakol" found in Jerusalem in 1968.

Kami tidak mengatakan bahwa kayu palang tidak pernah digunakan untuk eksekusi, dikarenakan metode eksekusi bervariasi sesuai dengan periode waktu dan lokasi. Arkeologi menemukan dan telah menunjukkan bahwa kadang-kadang “Cross” sebenarnya digunakan sebagai pengganti dari balok sederhana. Salah satu penemuan yang paling terkenal adalah bahwa seorang pria bernama "Yehohanan, anak Hagakol" ditemukan di Yerusalem pada tahun 1968.


SO, COULDN'T JESUS / YESHUA HAVE BEEN ON A CROSS?
JADI, PERNAHKAN YESUS BERADA DI CROSS (KAYU PALANG) ?

No. If he and the other men with him were killed on a cross, they would have taken days to die (probably from dehydration) according to the above mentioned scientific information. However, scripture tells us they were dead within hours, not days (Mark 15:25-37). It is also notable that, in order to hasten death, the legs of the criminals were to be broken (John 19:31-33). If they were on a cross, according to the above mentioned science, broken legs wouldn't have made a difference in time of death; that would only work when a victim is nailed to a singular pole.

TIDAK, Jika Yesus dan terhukum lainnya dibunuh pada sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang, mereka akan terbunuh dalam beberapa hari (kemungkinan akibat dehidrasi) berdasar pada informasi ilmiah yang disebut diatas. Tetapi, kitab kanon mengatakan pada kita bahwa mereka mati dalam hitungan jam, bukan dalam hitungan hari (Markus 15:25-37). Hal ini juga dinyatakan bahwa, untuk mempercepat kematian, kaki para penjahat dipatahkan (Yohanes 19:31-33). Jika seandainya mereka berada pada Cross-Kayu Palang, menurut penemuan ilmiah yang telah disinggung diatas, kaki yang patah tidak akan membuat suatu perbedaan dalam masalah waktu kematian; hal tersebut (KEMATIAN) hanya akan terjadi ketika si korban dipaku pada sebuah TIANG LURUS.



CONCLUSION
KESIMPULAN

So this is what we have here: A full cross would be too heavy for a man to carry all the way to Calvary, whereas a singular beam would be much more manageable. Scientific evidence also supports the use of a simple stake instead of a cross in the case of Yeshua Messiah's murder. Since a cross would take days to kill, and scripture states that death happened within mere hours, this also points to a simple stake or pole. Along with this, it is known that the idea of Yeshua being killed on a two-beamed cross came about three centuries after Yeshua's death as a way to welcome in pagan converts. Couple these things with the original language used in scripture, the evidence shows clearly that the true instrument of the Messiah's execution was a simple stake or pole.



Inilah yang kita dapat sekarang ini :
Sebuah KAYU PALANG akan terlalu berat untuk seseorang membawanya sepanjang perjalanan ke Calvary, sementara sebuah BALOK TUNGGAL akan lebih mudah dalam membawanya. Bukti Ilmiah juga mendukung penggunaan KAYU PANCANG LURUS daripada sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang dalam kasus pembunuhan Sang Mesiah. Karena sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang akan memakan waktu berhari-hari untuk membuat si terhukum terbunuh, dan Kitab Kanon menyatakan bahw kematian terjadi dalam hitungan jam, dan hal ini merujuk ke TIANG LURUS. Bersamaan dengan hal ini, diketahui bahwa ide Yesus terbunuh di Cross-Kayu Palang datang 3 abad kemudian setelah kematian Yesus sebagai salah satu cara menyambut masuknya pengikut Pagan kedalam agama Kristen. Beberapa hal dengan berdasar pada Bahasa Asli dari Kitab Kanon (Yunani), bukti menunjukkan dengan jelas bahwa alat yang sebenarnya yang dipake untuk mengeksekusi sang Mesiah adlah KAYU PANCANG LURUS.

mang odoy wrote:

maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).


mksih

1. OLD TESTAMENT

Gambaran singkatnya silahkan baca disini....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

2. NEW TESTAMENT

Silahkan baca yang ini..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

Masalahnya..bukan itu om...yang saya permasalahkan adalah INSTRUMENT yang dipake untuk mengeksekusi Yesus dalam Manuscript Asli yang berbahasa Yunani itu apa..

Cek yang ini...

Dan Pilatus menyuruh memasang juga tulisan di atas kayu salib itu, bunyinya: "Yesus, orang Nazaret, Raja orang Yahudi." (Yohanes 19 : 19)

Coba kita cek di manuskrip aslinya yang berbahasa Yunani disini...

http://interlinearbible.org/john/19.htm

Πιλᾶτος καὶ ἔθηκεν ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ· ἦν δὲ γεγραμμένον· Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων

pilatos kai ethēken epi tou staurou ēn de gegrammenon iēsous o nazōraios o basileus tōn ioudaiōn

Apa itu STAUROS..???

Liat disini..

http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=99114&context=lsj&action=hw-list-click

σταυρός, ὁ, upright pale or stake, σταυροὺς ἐκτὸς ἔλασσε διαμπερὲς ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας Od.14.11, cf. Il.24.453, Th.4.90, X. An.5.2.21; of piles driven in to serve as a foundation, Hdt.5.16, Th.7.25.

II. cross, as the instrument of crucifixion, D.S.2.18, Ev.Matt.27.40, Plu.2.554a; ἐπὶ τὸν σ. ἀπάγεσθαι Luc.Peregr.34; σ. λαμβάνειν, ἆραι, βαστάζειν, metaph. of voluntary suffering, Ev.Matt.10.38, Ev.Luc.9.23, 14.27: its form was represented by the Greek letter T, Luc.Jud.Voc.12.

b. pale for impaling a corpse, Plu.Art.17.

Bagaimana dengan PEMBUKTIAN ILMIAH nya.....????
Sebenarnya dibelakang saya sudah posting...tapi karena PURA PURA kagak baca...jadinya nanya terus...kapan pinternya...???? :04:

Silahkan di baca lagi yang ini om..

http://commontruth.com/CrossOrStake.html


Cross Vs. Stake Vs. Tree
KAYU PALANG vs KAYU LURUS vs POHON

All scriptural references are from the King James Version unless otherwise noted
Semua referensi alkitab diambil dari The King James Version kecuali yang dikasih catatan khusus.

Please be aware:
We were informed of important changes in websites that were referenced in this essay. Therefore, we have updated the information accordingly. Although this doesn't change the outcome of the essay, we felt it necessary to let you know that this may be a little different from the last time you viewed it.
God Bless!
Perhatian..!
Kami menginformasikan akan perubahan perubahan penting dalam website yang diinformasikan dalam essay ini. Karenanya, kami telah meng update informasi tersebut secara berkala. Meskipun hal ini tidak merubah hasil (keluaran) dari esai ini, kami rasa itu penting untuk anda ketahui bahwa hal tersebut mungkin sedikit berbeda dari saat anda terakhir membuka website ini.


INTRODUCTION
Perkenalan


There are varying beliefs regarding the device used for Christ's execution. Some believe Christ was killed using a simple, upright pole, others believe he was executed on a cross, and still others believe he was killed on an actual living tree. Each group presents evidence in support of their chosen belief. Though we at CommonTruth.com do not consider the device of Christ's death to be an issue of doctrine (we believe his actual death is a much more important issue ), we realize that some Christian groups do regard this as very important.
Ada banyak jenis kepercayaan sehubungan dengan ALAT YANG DIPAKE untuk eksekusi Yesus. Beberapa pihak percaya bahwa Yesus dibunuh menggunakan KAYU LURUS, yang lain percaya (meyakini) bahwa Yesus dieksekusi pada sebuah CROSS-KAYU PALANG, dan masih banyak yang lainnya yang percaya bahwa Yesus dibunuh di sebuah Pohon . Masing masing pihak menyajikan data dan fakta dalam mendukung kepercayaan pilihannya. Walowpun, kami di Common Truth.com, tidak menganggap alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Yesus sebagai Persoalan Doktrin (kami percaya kematian Yesus adalah hal yang lebih penting), kami menyadari bahwa beberapa golongan Kristen sangat menghormati hal kematian Yesus ini.


Therefore, since our job is to present scriptural truth, we have chosen to tackle this topic for those who are unsettled on the issue.
Oleh sebab itu, karena tugas kami untuk menyajikan KEBENARAN ALKITAB, kami telah memilih untuk mentackel topik ini untuk mereka yang masih ragu ragu mengenai persoalan ini.



DIFFERENCES IN DOCTRINE
Perbedaan-perbedaan dalam Doktrin


To start with, in the New Testament most bibles refer to "The Cross" as the device Messiah / Christ was killed on. Some of the places in which this is mentioned is at Matthew 10:38, Matthew 27:32, 42 and Mark 8:34. Other bible versions use the term "Stake" instead. Versions that use the word "stake" include: The Complete Jewish Bible, The Scriptures (ISR), The New World Translation, and The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition. The Bible also refers to Jesus / Yeshua as being hung on a tree (Galatians 3:13) (also Acts 5:30 and 1 Peter 2:24 in King James Version).
Untuk memulai, dalam Perjanjian Baru, kebanyakan dari Kitab kitab tersebut merujuk "The Cross-Kayu Palang" sebagai alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Yesus. Dibeberapa bagian dalam kitab tersebut diantaranya : Matius 10:38, Matius 27:32,42 dan Markus 8:34.

A. Versi Bible yang lain menggunakan kata "STAKE" sebagai gantinya. Versi bible yang memakai kata STAKE, diantaranya :

1. The Complete Jewish Bible, http://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/

2. The Scriptures (ISR) http://www.isr-messianic.org/

3. The New World Translation http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm

4. The Sacred Scriptures Bethel Edition http://www.assembliesofyahweh.com/SSBE.htm


B. Bible yang merefer ke Yesus yang digantung pada sebuah POHON :

1. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%203:13&version=NASB#en-NASB-29116

Galatians 3:13 (New American Standard Bible)

13.Christ (A)redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "(B)CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON (C)A TREE"--


2. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%205:30&version=KJV

Acts 5:30 (King James Version)

30.The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

3. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%202:24&version=KJV

1 Peter 2:24 (King James Version)

24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.



Since there isn't complete agreement among the various bible versions, it is important to check the original language used in the bible in order to know which meaning is originally intended. This is where we need to use an interlinear bible text.
Karena tidak ada keseragaman diantara versi versi bible tersebut, sangat penting untuk memeriksa BAHASA ASLI yang digunakan dalam bible agar mengetahui arti yang mana yang sebenernya di maksud. Karenannya kita butuh menggunakan sebuah INTERLINEAR BIBLE TEXT.


TRANSLATION MAKES A DIFFERENCE
Terjemahan membuat sebuah perbedaan.

We used the Interlinear bible at www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/ with their King James Strong's Version to look up the original Greek word for "cross" in the New Testament using the Strong's Concordance. We got this information:

Kami menggunakan Interlinear Bible di http://www.biblestudytools.com/interlinear-bible/ dengan King James Strong Version sebagai sumbernya untuk mencari Kata Asli dalam Bahasa Yunani untuk kata "CROSS-KAYU PALANG" dalam Perjanjian Baru dengan menggunakan Indeks Kuat . Kami mendapatkan informasi berikut ini :

#4716. stauros stow-ros' from the base of 2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross.

#4716. stauros stow-ros' dari dasar 2476; Sebuah KAYU atow TONGGAK (Lurus), contohnya (khususnya) sebuah TIANG atow PALANG (sebagai alat hukuman mati) , bersifat perlambang atow kiasan, hukuman mati, contohnya self-denial; dengan Implikasi ; penebusan dosa oleh Yesus; Kayu Palang


We also looked up the word "crucify" with the Strong's Concordance, and found this:
Kami juga mencari kata "CRUCIFY " dengan indeks kuat, dan kami menemukan ini :

#4717. stauroo stow-ro'-o from 4716; to impale on the cross; figuratively, to extinguish (subdue) passion or selfishness:--crucify.
#4717. stauroo stow-ro'-o from 4716; merapatkan dan menusuk pada sebuah kayu palang; secara kiasan, mematikan (menaklukkan) hawa nafsu: crucify.

Next we looked up the word "tree" in the Strong's Concordance, and this is what we found:
Selanjutnya kami mencari kata "TREE-POHON" dalam indeks kuat, dan ini yang kami temukan :

#3586. xulon xoo'-lon from another form of the base of 3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication, a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance:--staff, stocks, tree, wood.
#3586. xulon xoo'-lon dari bentuk lain dari dasar 3582; kayu (sebagai kayu bakar atow bahan bangunan); dengan implikasi, sebuah tongkat,pentungan, atow pohon atow bahan kayu lainnya; tongkat, batang,pohon,kayu.

We searched through the interlinear bible at www.scripture4all.org to see the various instances in which xulon was used. In scripture, xulon was used for a variety of meanings, all of which matched any one of the above definitions for "xulon". The word was used when speaking of staves/clubs (Matthew 26:47,55), the device of the Messiah's death (Acts 5:30, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24), and stockades (Acts 16:24), as well as trees (Luke 23:31).

Kami mencarinya melalui The Interlinear Bible di situs www.scripture4all.org untuk melihat bermacam macam contoh penggunaan dari XULAN tersebut. Dalam kitab tersebut, XULON digunakan untuk bermacam macam arti, yang mana kesemuanya cocok dengan salah satu dari definisi kata XULON diatas.

1. Kata XULON tersebut digunakan ketika berbicara tentang PENTUNGAN dalam Matius 26: 47,55 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2026:47,55&version=NASB

Jesus' Betrayal and Arrest

47(A)While He was still speaking, behold, (B)Judas, one of the twelve, came up accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people.

(47) Waktu Yesus masih berbicara datanglah Yudas, salah seorang dari kedua belas murid itu, dan bersama-sama dia serombongan besar orang yang membawa pedang dan pentung, disuruh oleh imam-imam kepala dan tua-tua bangsa Yahudi.

2. Alat kematian sang Mesiah dalam (Acts 5:30, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24), . http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%205:30,%20Galatians%203:13,%201%20Peter%202:24&version=NASB

30"(A)The God of our fathers (B)raised up Jesus, whom you had (C)put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

(30) Allah nenek moyang kita telah membangkitkan Yesus, yang kamu gantungkan pada kayu saib dan kamu bunuh.

3. Benteng, Tembok pertahanan,Pasung dalam Kisah Para Rasul 16:24 (Acts 16:24), http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2016:24&version=NASB

24. and he, having received such a command, threw them into the inner prison and fastened their feet in (A)the stocks.

(24) Sesuai dengan perintah itu, kepala penjara memasukkan mereka ke ruang penjara yang paling tengah dan membelenggu kaki mereka dalam pasungan yang kuat.

4. Pohon dalam Lukas 23:31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2023:31&version=NASB

31. "For if they do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?"

(31) Sebab jikalau orang berbuat demikian dengan kayu hidup, apakah yang akan terjadi dengan kayu kering?"




GATHERING IT TOGETHER
MENYATUKAN

So far, now, this is what we have: The words "stauros" and "xulon" are both used for references to the device of the Messiah's murder. Both refer to singular wooden devices in some manner. Stauros means stake, pole, or cross; Xulon means beam, stocks, staff, or tree. In the various bible versions, Yeshua is referenced as being put on a cross, stake, or tree. At this point though, there is still no proof as to whether Yeshua was nailed to a simple stake, a living tree, or a two beamed cross. Therefore, let's investigate this further.

Sejauh ini, sekarang, ini yang kita sudah ketahui:

1. Kata STAUROS dan XULON keduanya digunakan untuk menerangkan alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Sang Mesiah, Keduanya merujuk ke KAYU TUNGGAL dalam beberapa hal.
2, STAUROS berarti kayu pancang, tiang, atau salib; XULON berarti balok, batang, tongkat, atau pohon
Dalam berbagai versi Alkitab, Yesus atow Yeshua dihukum diatas kayu palang,kayu pancang/kayu sula, atau pohon. Pada titik ini meskipun, belum ada bukti mengenai apakah Yeshua dipakukan pada sebuah kayu pancang, pohon hidup, kayu palang. Oleh karena itu, mari kita menyelidiki ini lebih lanjut.


SCIENTIFIC PROOF
BUKTI ILMIAH

As for death resulting from being nailed up, the most popular thought is that the Messiah would die of suffocation/asphyxiation. Frederick T. Zugibe, (Adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Colombia University College of Physicians and Surgeons), performed extensive experiments to test this theory: He took volunteers and crucified them (they weren't actually nailed, they were suspended by belts and straps on a sturdily constructed cross). He conducted two variations of crucifixion: One with a suppedaneum (a wooden block upon which toes would be supported, helping a victim stay supported on a cross/stauros ) and one without a suppendanuem. The results can be read at these websites here: http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/Turin2000.htm and http://www.west.net/~shroud/zugibe.htm. These experiments show that a man on a cross would NOT suffocate to death, with or without a suppedaneum.

Adapun kematian akibat dipaku, pendapat yang paling populer adalah bahwa Mesias akan mati lemas / sesak napas. Frederick T. Zugibe, (Adjunct Associate Professor of Pathology at Colombia University College of Physicians and Surgeons), , melakukan eksperimen yang luas untuk menguji teori ini: Ia mengambil relawan dan crucify mereka (mereka tidak benar-benar dipaku, mereka digantung dengan ikat pinggang dan tali di kayu palang yang kokoh). Dia melakukan dua variasi krusifiksi: Satunya dengan suppedaneum http://www.talktalk.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0012433.html (sebuah balok kayu yang mana si kaki korban bisa menginjaknya, membantu korban tetap tergantung pada sebuah kayu silang/kayu pancang lurus) dan satunya tanpa suppendanuem. Hasil dapat dibaca di situs sini:

1. http://www.crucifixion-shroud.com/Turin2000.htm

2. http://www.west.net/~shroud/zugibe.htm

Percobaan ini menunjukkan bahwa seorang pria di KAYU SILANG tidak akan tercekik sampai mati, dengan atau tanpa suppedaneum.


By way of comparison, Hermann Moedder, a doctor of radiology from Austria, carried out an experiment in the 1940's in Cologne, Germany, with medical students. He strapped them with their wrists directly above their heads Within minutes the students grew pale, their lung capacity and blood pressure dropped significantly, and their pulse rates increased. Moedder concluded suffocation would occur in minutes if they were not able to stand and rest. Though we don't have complete information about this experiment, it appears that a suppedaneum wasn't used, neither was a sedile (a block of wood attached to the stauros to support the buttocks slightly). This makes a difference because such devices can act as supports that the victim on the stauros could use for support in the breathing issues involved

Dengan cara perbandingan, Hermann Moedder, seorang dokter radiologi dari Austria, melakukan percobaan di tahun 1940 di Cologne, Jerman, dengan mahasiswa kedokteran. Dia mengikat mereka dengan cara pergelangan tangan di atas kepala mereka Dalam beberapa menit mahasiswa mahasiswa tersebut pucat, kapasitas paru-paru dan tekanan darah turun secara signifikan, dan detak urat nadi mereka meningkat. Moedder menyimpulkan mati lemas akan terjadi dalam beberapa menit jika mereka tidak mampu berdiri dan beristirahat. Meskipun kita tidak memiliki informasi lengkap tentang percobaan ini, tampak bahwa suppedaneum tidak digunakan, tidak juga SEDILE (sebuah balok kayu yang dilekatkan pada stauros untuk mendukung pantat sedikit). Hal ini membuat perbedaan karena perangkat tersebut dapat berperan sebagai pendukung yang mana korban pada stauros bisa menggunakannya sebagai dukungan dalam masalah pernapasan yang terlibat..


Now this is where the comparison of the two experiments is interesting: According to the bible, a crucified man's legs were broken in order to hasten death (John 19:31-32). This would indicate, according to the results of the above mentioned experiments, that Yeshua Messiah and the two robbers were killed on singular poles . Breaking their legs would take away the usefulness of the suppedaneum's support, thus hastening their deaths by suffocation. This would not happen on a cross, according to Dr. Zugibe's experiments.

Sekarang, ini adalah di mana perbandingan dua eksperimen menarik: Menurut Alkitab, kaki seorang pria yang disalibkan itu patah dalam rangka mempercepat kematian

John 19:31 (New American Standard Bible) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2019:31&version=NASB

Care of the Body of Jesus
31Then the Jews, because it was (A)the day of preparation, so that (B)the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a (C)high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


(31) Karena hari itu hari persiapan dan supaya pada hari Sabat mayat-mayat itu tidak tinggal tergantung pada kayu salib--sebab Sabat itu adalah hari yang besar--maka datanglah orang-orang Yahudi kepada Pilatus dan meminta kepadanya supaya kaki orang-orang itu dipatahkan dan mayat-mayatnya diturunkan (Yohanes 19:31-32).

Hal ini mengindikasikan, menurut hasil eksperimen yang disebutkan di atas, bahwa Yeshua Mesias dan dua perampok tewas di tiang tunggal. Mematahkan kaki mereka akan menghilangkan fungsi/kegunaan dari dukungan suppedaneum, dengan demikian mempercepat kematian mereka dengan cara mati lemas. Hal ini tidak akan terjadi di kayu palang, menurut percobaan Dr Zugibe's.




WHAT ABOUT THE SIGN POSTED ON THE BEAM?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN PAPAN TANDA YANG DIPASANG DI KAYU BALOK?

Now we have the matter of the sign posted above the Messiah's head as stated at Matthew 27:37. If the sign was posted above his head, then that would imply a cross, otherwise it would be above his hands, right? According to scripture, the sign said something to the effect of "Yeshua the Nazarene the King of the Jews". This sign was written in three languages: Hebrew, Latin, and Greek (John 19:19-20). Therefore, this couldn't have been a tiny sign. However, we need to understand that we, the readers, are simply assuming what the position of the sign was. All the bible says is that it was above his head, no indication of postion otherwise. It is possible that Yeshua was nailed with his hands straight up, and the sign placed above his head, as indicated by the scriptures, but also slipped in behind his arms. If you hold your hands above your head and look in a mirror you can see that this is a feasible situation.

Sekarang kita memiliki masalah tentang papan tanda yang dipasang di atas kepala Mesias seperti yang dinyatakan di Matius 27:37. Jika papan tanda itu diposting di atas kepalanya, maka itu akan berarti kayu palang, jika tidak tanda itu akan berada di atas tangannya, kan? . Menurut Kitab Suci, papan tanda tersebut menyatakan "Yeshua dari Nazaret Raja orang Yahudi". Papan Tanda ini ditulis dalam tiga bahasa: Ibrani, Latin, dan Yunani (Yohanes 19:19-20). Oleh karena itu, ini tidak mungkin sebuah papan tanda yang kecil. Namun, kita perlu memahami bahwa kita, para pembaca, hanya mengasumsikan dimana posisi papan tanda itu. Semua Alkitab mengatakan bahwa papan tanda tersebut di atas kepalanya.. Kemungkinan Yeshua dipakukan dengan tangan lurus ke atas, dan tanda ditempatkan di atas kepalanya, seperti ditunjukkan oleh Kitab Suci, tetapi juga menyelinap di belakang tangannya. Jika Anda memegang tangan Anda di atas kepala Anda dan lihatlah di cermin, Anda dapat melihat bahwa ini adalah situasi yang mudah.



WHAT ABOUT THE NAILS?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN PAKU?

What about the plurality of nails that were driven into his hands/wrists? (John 20:25). If Yeshua were nailed to a stake, then only one nail would be used to nail his hands/wrists, right? Again, we are assuming only one view. It's reasonable to conclude that a single nail won't support the weight of an adult male. Either the nail would rip out of the pole, or the man's hands would rip off from the nail as the man was hanging there. It seems necessary that multiple nails would be required for a more secure hold.

Bagaimana dengan pluralitas paku yang didorong ke tangannya / pergelangan tangan? (Yohanes 20:25). Jika Yeshua dipaku pada sebuah kayu pancang, maka hanya satu paku yang digunakan untuk memaku tangan / pergelangan tangan, kan? Sekali lagi, kita mengasumsikan hanya satu pandangan. Sangat masuk akal untuk menyimpulkan bahwa sebuah paku tunggal tidak akan mendukung berat seorang pria dewasa. Tidak juga paku tersebut akan merobek tiang, atau tangan orang itu akan robek dari paku dikarenakan orang itu tergantung di sana. Tampaknya perlu bahwa beberapa paku akan diperlukan untuk menahan lebih aman.


WHAT ABOUT THE WEIGHT OF THE CROSS?
BAGAIMANA DENGAN BERAT DARI "CROSS/KAYU PALANG"..??

The bible states that the Messiah carried his stauros to the execution site (Luke 23:26). Although this would also do away with the idea of Yeshua being nailed to a living tree, most people still believe that this was actually just a patibulum - a cross beam for the arms - not the entire cross. But this isn't sensible, because Yeshua told us, according to the interlinear bibles, that we have to carry our own "stauros" (Matthew 16:24, Mark 8:34, Luke 14:27). If we are to translate "stauros" as "cross", then to carry solely the patibulum would be carrying only a part of it, not the whole thing. This would contradict the very thing Yeshua himself told us to do. Also, as seen in scripture, a man named Simon was selected to help Yeshua carry the stauros (Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21). This implies something other than a patibulum. Also, if "stauros" were to be translated as an entire cross, according to some this could weigh approximately 200 - 300 pounds (about 91-136 kilograms) with the main beam weighing in at about 125 -175 pounds (57 - 80 kilograms). This could probably be managed with the two men, however scripture shows that Simon actually took the stauros to carry on his own (Matthew 27:32, Luke 23:26) (Note, the scriptures say he actually bore the stauros, not just simply helped carry it). However, having just the main stake without a patibulum would be much more manageable weight-wise. Of course, people in those days were much hardier because they had more physical labor to perform on a day-to-day basis, but still, 300 pounds is an awful lot for such a man to carry on his back through the streets of Jerusalem and up a hill.

Alkitab menyatakan bahwa Mesias membawa stauros ke lokasi eksekusi (Lukas 23:26). Meskipun ini juga akan menyingkirkan gagasan bahwa Yeshua dipaku ke pohon hidup, kebanyakan orang masih percaya bahwa ini sebenarnya hanya patibulum - sebuah balok silang untuk lengan - bukan kayu palang secara keseluruhan. Tapi ini tidak masuk akal, karena Yeshua mengatakan kepada kita, menurut The Interlinear Bible, bahwa kita harus membawa stauros kita sendiri (Matius 16:24, Markus 8:34, Lukas 14:27). Jika kita ingin menerjemahkan "stauros" sebagai "kayu palang", kemudian membawa patibulum semata, hanya akan membawa sebagian dari itu, bukan semuanya. Hal ini akan bertentangan dengan hal terpenting yang mana Yeshua sendiri mengatakan kepada kita untuk melakukannya. Juga, seperti yang terlihat dalam Kitab Suci, seorang pria bernama Simon dipilih untuk membantu Yeshua membawa stauros (Matius 27:32, Markus 15:21).
Ini berarti sesuatu selain patibulum. Juga, jika "stauros" itu diterjemahkan sebagai “Cross” secara keseluruhan, menurut beberapa keterangan stauros ini beratnya sekitar 200 - 300 pound (sekitar 91-136 kilogram) dengan berat balok utama sekitar 125 -175 pound (57-80 kilogram ). Hal ini mungkin hanya bisa dibawa oleh dua laki-laki, tetapi Kitab Suci menunjukkan bahwa Simon benar-benar mengambil stauros tersebut dan membawanya sendiri (Matius 27:32, Lukas 23:26) (Catatan; tulisan suci mengatakan ia benar-benar memanggul stauros, bukan hanya sekedar membantu membawanya).
Akan tetapi ,dengan hanya membawa TIANG LURUS tanpa patibulum akan jauh lebih mudah membawanya . Tentu saja, orang-orang di masa itu jauh lebih kuat karena mereka lebih kuat secara fisik untuk menjalankan tugas sehari-hari, tapi tetap saja, 300 pon adalah cukup berat untuk orang seperti itu untuk memanggulnya melalui jalan-jalan di Yerusalem dan naik ke atas bukit.




HOW DID "STAKE" BECOME "CROSS"?
BAGAIMANA SEBUAH "STAKE-KAYU PANCANG LURUS" MENJADI "CROSS-KAYU PALANG"?

According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (available here), this is what it says:
Menurut Vine's Expository Dictionary dari Perjanjian Baru (tersedia di sini), ini adalah apa yang dikatakannya:

Noun,# 4716,stauros: denotes, primarily, "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ.

Kata Benda # 4716, stauros: terutama menunjukkan ". SEBUAH KAYU PANCANG LURUS" , Para penjahat tersebut dipaku untuk eksekusi. Baik kata benda dan kata kerja stauroo, "mengikat erat pada sebuah kayu pancang atow tiang," pada awalnya harus dibedakan dari bentuk gerejawi sebagai dua balok lintang "Kayu Palang." Bentuk yang terakhir itu( KAYU PALANG ) berasal di Kaldea kuno, dan digunakan sebagai simbol dari dewa Tammuz (yang dalam bentuk Tau mistik, adalah inisial dari namanya) di negara itu dan daerah sekitarnya, termasuk Mesir. Pada pertengahan abad ke-3 apakah gereja berpijak pada hal tersebut, atau telah meniru, doktrin-doktrin tertentu dari iman Kristen. Dalam rangka meningkatkan prestise dari sistem pagan murtad gerejawi yang diterima ke dalam gereja-gereja terpisah dari regenerasi oleh iman, dan sebagian besar diijinkan untuk mempertahankan tanda tanda pagan mereka dan simbol-simbol. Karena itu Tau atau T, dalam bentuknya yang paling sering, dengan potongan-kayu palang yagn diturunkan, diadopsi sebagai bentuk untuk "tiang palang" Kristus.


As for the Chi, or X, which Constantine declared he had seen in a vision leading him to champion the Christian faith, that letter was the initial of the word "Christ" and had nothing to do with "the Cross" (for xulon, "a timber beam, a tree," as used for the stauros, see under TREE).
Sedangkan untuk Chi, atau X, yang Konstantinus menyatakan ia telah melihat dalam suatu penglihatan yang membawanya menjadi jagoan dalam iman Kristen, bentuk tersebut ( X ) adalah awal dari kata "Kristus" dan tidak ada hubungannya dengan "Kayu palang " (untuk xulon, "sebuah balok kayu, pohon," seperti yang digunakan untuk stauros, lihat penjelasan mengenai POHON).


SO, NOBODY DIED ON A CROSS?
JADI, TAK ADA ORANG YANG MATI DI KAYU PALANG?

We aren't saying that crosses were never used for execution, as execution methods varied according to time period and location. Archaeological finds have shown that sometimes a cross was actually used instead of a simple beam. One of the most famous finds was that of a man named "Yehohanan, son of Hagakol" found in Jerusalem in 1968.

Kami tidak mengatakan bahwa kayu palang tidak pernah digunakan untuk eksekusi, dikarenakan metode eksekusi bervariasi sesuai dengan periode waktu dan lokasi. Arkeologi menemukan dan telah menunjukkan bahwa kadang-kadang “Cross” sebenarnya digunakan sebagai pengganti dari balok sederhana. Salah satu penemuan yang paling terkenal adalah bahwa seorang pria bernama "Yehohanan, anak Hagakol" ditemukan di Yerusalem pada tahun 1968.


SO, COULDN'T JESUS / YESHUA HAVE BEEN ON A CROSS?
JADI, PERNAHKAN YESUS BERADA DI CROSS (KAYU PALANG) ?

No. If he and the other men with him were killed on a cross, they would have taken days to die (probably from dehydration) according to the above mentioned scientific information. However, scripture tells us they were dead within hours, not days (Mark 15:25-37). It is also notable that, in order to hasten death, the legs of the criminals were to be broken (John 19:31-33). If they were on a cross, according to the above mentioned science, broken legs wouldn't have made a difference in time of death; that would only work when a victim is nailed to a singular pole.

TIDAK, Jika Yesus dan terhukum lainnya dibunuh pada sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang, mereka akan terbunuh dalam beberapa hari (kemungkinan akibat dehidrasi) berdasar pada informasi ilmiah yang disebut diatas. Tetapi, kitab kanon mengatakan pada kita bahwa mereka mati dalam hitungan jam, bukan dalam hitungan hari (Markus 15:25-37). Hal ini juga dinyatakan bahwa, untuk mempercepat kematian, kaki para penjahat dipatahkan (Yohanes 19:31-33). Jika seandainya mereka berada pada Cross-Kayu Palang, menurut penemuan ilmiah yang telah disinggung diatas, kaki yang patah tidak akan membuat suatu perbedaan dalam masalah waktu kematian; hal tersebut (KEMATIAN) hanya akan terjadi ketika si korban dipaku pada sebuah TIANG LURUS.



CONCLUSION
KESIMPULAN

So this is what we have here: A full cross would be too heavy for a man to carry all the way to Calvary, whereas a singular beam would be much more manageable. Scientific evidence also supports the use of a simple stake instead of a cross in the case of Yeshua Messiah's murder. Since a cross would take days to kill, and scripture states that death happened within mere hours, this also points to a simple stake or pole. Along with this, it is known that the idea of Yeshua being killed on a two-beamed cross came about three centuries after Yeshua's death as a way to welcome in pagan converts. Couple these things with the original language used in scripture, the evidence shows clearly that the true instrument of the Messiah's execution was a simple stake or pole.



Inilah yang kita dapat sekarang ini :
Sebuah KAYU PALANG akan terlalu berat untuk seseorang membawanya sepanjang perjalanan ke Calvary, sementara sebuah BALOK TUNGGAL akan lebih mudah dalam membawanya. Bukti Ilmiah juga mendukung penggunaan KAYU PANCANG LURUS daripada sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang dalam kasus pembunuhan Sang Mesiah. Karena sebuah Cross-Kayu Palang akan memakan waktu berhari-hari untuk membuat si terhukum terbunuh, dan Kitab Kanon menyatakan bahw kematian terjadi dalam hitungan jam, dan hal ini merujuk ke TIANG LURUS. Bersamaan dengan hal ini, diketahui bahwa ide Yesus terbunuh di Cross-Kayu Palang datang 3 abad kemudian setelah kematian Yesus sebagai salah satu cara menyambut masuknya pengikut Pagan kedalam agama Kristen. Beberapa hal dengan berdasar pada Bahasa Asli dari Kitab Kanon (Yunani), bukti menunjukkan dengan jelas bahwa alat yang sebenarnya yang dipake untuk mengeksekusi sang Mesiah adlah KAYU PANCANG LURUS.

Silahkan..kalo emang itu organ tubuh yang paling penting masih mau dipake secara maksimal..baca tu artikel diatas....jadi jangan muter muter mulu di FANATISME turun temurun...buka cakrawala wawasan anda...okehhh.....

Wasalam,

Temenku mang odoy, bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran atau palang/ silang dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?
itu aja temenku.... monggo

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Temenku mang odoy, bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran atau palang/ silang dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?
itu aja temenku.... monggo

Masya Allah..orang udah ngejelasin panjang lebar emang gak pernah dibaca kali ya.... :D

Ya udah..saya ngalah dah... :D

SAYA TIDAK TAU...!!

Coba sekarang giliran pak ustad...untuk menjelaskan kepada kita semua...apa KAYU PALANG/TIANG JEMURAN dalam Bahasa Yunani......dan ada dalam Kitab Perjanjian Baru yang mana..ayat berapa....???

Silahkan pak ustat....

Wasalam,

Hamba Tuhan1 wrote:maaf temenku mang odoy, izin saya belajar bahasa dr anda.... sepengetahuan saya PL ditulis dalam bahasa Ibrani sedangkan PB seluruhnya ditulis dengan menggunakan bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine).

bolehkah saya tau kayu palang/ tiang jemuran dalam bahasa Yunani kuno pasaran (Koine) apa?

mksih

mang odoy wrote:1. Kata STAUROS dan XULON keduanya digunakan untuk menerangkan alat yang dipake untuk membunuh Sang Mesiah, Keduanya merujuk ke KAYU TUNGGAL dalam beberapa hal.
2, STAUROS berarti kayu pancang, tiang, atau salib; XULON berarti balok, batang, tongkat, atau pohon

mang odoy wrote:@atas

he he he...ane dah tau kemana larinya...... :04:

Silahkan dibaca baca lagi paparan saya ...sebelum kita bener bener DUET MAUT disini....( hi hi kaya Rhoma dan Elvi aja...)

https://murtadinkafirun.forumotion.com/t11386-shalabuu-qs-4-157-versus-estaursan-lukas-23-33

Di tret itu.....saya akan bikin lebih RAPIH...karena pendapat anda dan saya...sudah tertampung disini..

Wasalam,

disini aja gasah nambah2 threadnya mang..... heheee....

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

mang odoy wrote:

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

DEBAT KUSIR kok yang baca ampe ribuan..... :D

KUSIR sihhh...tapi bukan KUSIR DELMAN....tapi KUSIR BOEING 747 .... :D

wah yakin banget itu yang baca ribuan yaa ?
coba pikir2 dulu tong sebelum terlalu bangga diri
kusir syaitan baru benar

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

DEBAT KUSIR kok yang baca ampe ribuan..... :D

KUSIR sihhh...tapi bukan KUSIR DELMAN....tapi KUSIR BOEING 747 .... :D

wah yakin banget itu yang baca ribuan yaa ?
coba pikir2 dulu tong sebelum terlalu bangga diri
kusir syaitan baru benar

mang odoy wrote:

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

DEBAT KUSIR kok yang baca ampe ribuan..... :D

KUSIR sihhh...tapi bukan KUSIR DELMAN....tapi KUSIR BOEING 747 .... :D

hamba tuhan wrote:Kamus Al-Muhith.

صَلَبَ يَصْلُبُ صَلْبًا:

- تِ الحُمَّى: اشتدَّتْ وطالت؛ صلبته الشمس/ صلبه الحَرُّ.

- اللَّحمَ: شواهَ واستخرج دسمه.

- الجانيَ: علَّقه ممدودَ اليدين مشدودَ الرِّجْلين.


Shalaba – yashlubu – shalban:
- Demam: sangat dan panjang, matahari sangat terik / sangat panas.
- Daging: memanggangnya dan mengeluarkan lemaknya.
- Pendosa: menggantungnya dengan membentangkan kedua tangannya dan menjulurkan kedua kakinya.

Mang Odoy :
Oke..kalo tetep "keukeuh" dengan pertanyaan ini..
Coba saya pengen tau...HUKUMAN yang diterangkan oleh kamus Al-Muhit dalam hal PENDOSA ini....hukuman pada jaman SIAPA...??? Musa-Isa atow Nabi Muhammad...???
Saya minta referensi yang jelas...

Karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Kamus Al-Muhit ini agak sedikit JANGGAL....jelas posisi seperti itu adalah POSISI YESUS/NABI ISA yang diyakini oleh UMAT KRISTEN yang sudah ketahuan KENA TEPU para PENDETA nya..karena menurut MANUSKRIP ASLI KITAB KANON yang berbahasa Yunani....posisi YESUS pun bukan seperti itu..
SIlahhkeennn....


bagian teks lisanul arabi

وما قَتَلُوه وما صَلَبُوه وفيه ولأُصَلِّبَنَّكم في جُذُوعِ النَّخْلِ أَي على جُذُوعِ النخل والصَّلِيبُ المَصْلُوبُ والصَّليب الذي يتخذه النصارى على ذلك الشَّكْل

wamaa qataluuhu wamaa shalabuuhu termasuk didalamnya la ushallibannakum fi juduu'in-nakhli yakni di atas batang kurma, kata salib adalah al-mashluub (yg disalib), kata SALIB yg diambil oleh orang nasrani adalah atas perumpamaan tersebut.

Mang Odoy :
Lagi lagi ini adalah pengaruh TREND pada jaman Kamus Lisan Al-Arabi ini dibuat...karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Ibn Manzur sendiri di awal pembahasannnya tentang SHAD LAM BA...sama sekali tidak menyinggung bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA ini ada hubungannya dengan posisi si terhukum...
Mangkanya...kalo anda memang cukup PIAWAI dalam bahasa arab...saya sudah copas teks asli Lisan Al-Arabi perihal SHAD LAM BA ini...silahkan terjemahkan semuanya (dengan penuh kejujuran tentunya).....
Tunjukkan kepada saya dan semuanya...dimana pembahasan Ibn Manzur bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pada SHAD LAM BA...merujuk ke posisi si terhukum, atow BENTUK KAYU SILANG...
Silahkeennn....


وفي بعض الحديث: صَلَّيْتُ إِلى جَنْبِ عمر، رضي اللّه عنه، فَوضَعْتُ يَدِي على خاصِرتي، فلما صَلَّى، قال: هذا الصَّلْبُ في الصلاة. كان النبي، صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، يَنْهَى عنه أَي إِنه يُشْبِه الصَّلْبَ لأَنَّ الرجل إِذا صُلِبَ مُدَّ يَدُه، وباعُهُ على الجِذْعِ.

artinya: diterangkan dalam salah satu hadits: aku shalat disamping Umar ra. maka aku meletakkan tanganku di atas lambungku, setelah aku sholat, Umar berkata: "ini penyaliban dalam sholat, adalah Nabi saw melarang berbuat seperti itu demikian ini menyerupai salib, karena seorang laki-laki ketika disalib tangannya dipanjangkan dan mendepakannya diatas batang.

Mang Odoy:Siapa AKU dalam hadist diatas...???
Posisi dengan tangan diatas lambung...kok nyambung dengan posisi Yesus pake kancut yang sering di pajang di Gereja...???
Anehhhh.....

Silahkan dijawab....



coba mang jelasin ke pembaca2 apa maksudnya... monggo

Mang Odoy :Anda yang bawa kemari...silahkan tu disantap dulu pertanyaan saya...[/color]

BOTELHEM wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

jesus christ wrote:

mang odoy wrote:Mana ini Bapak Bapak dari DEPAG RI....????

Umat ada keluhan kok kagak DIGUBRIS....

tukang debat kusir gak jelas

DEBAT KUSIR kok yang baca ampe ribuan..... :D

KUSIR sihhh...tapi bukan KUSIR DELMAN....tapi KUSIR BOEING 747 .... :D

Kalo satu orang nge-view sampe 5 kali tiap hari, dan kalau orang-nya itu2 aja, bisa aja dong sampe ribuan yg ngeview hingga sekarang...

Salam Damai..

BOTELHEM wrote:Salib-kan sebutan gaul-nya Tiang Jemuran Bro..
Cuman yg dibahas disini adalah Kata Salib-nya, ada yang nggak senang tuh...

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:Kamus Al-Muhith.

صَلَبَ يَصْلُبُ صَلْبًا:

- تِ الحُمَّى: اشتدَّتْ وطالت؛ صلبته الشمس/ صلبه الحَرُّ.

- اللَّحمَ: شواهَ واستخرج دسمه.

- الجانيَ: علَّقه ممدودَ اليدين مشدودَ الرِّجْلين.


Shalaba – yashlubu – shalban:
- Demam: sangat dan panjang, matahari sangat terik / sangat panas.
- Daging: memanggangnya dan mengeluarkan lemaknya.
- Pendosa: menggantungnya dengan membentangkan kedua tangannya dan menjulurkan kedua kakinya.

Mang Odoy :
Oke..kalo tetep "keukeuh" dengan pertanyaan ini..
Coba saya pengen tau...HUKUMAN yang diterangkan oleh kamus Al-Muhit dalam hal PENDOSA ini....hukuman pada jaman SIAPA...??? Musa-Isa atow Nabi Muhammad...???
Saya minta referensi yang jelas...

Karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Kamus Al-Muhit ini agak sedikit JANGGAL....jelas posisi seperti itu adalah POSISI YESUS/NABI ISA yang diyakini oleh UMAT KRISTEN yang sudah ketahuan KENA TEPU para PENDETA nya..karena menurut MANUSKRIP ASLI KITAB KANON yang berbahasa Yunani....posisi YESUS pun bukan seperti itu..
SIlahhkeennn....


bagian teks lisanul arabi

وما قَتَلُوه وما صَلَبُوه وفيه ولأُصَلِّبَنَّكم في جُذُوعِ النَّخْلِ أَي على جُذُوعِ النخل والصَّلِيبُ المَصْلُوبُ والصَّليب الذي يتخذه النصارى على ذلك الشَّكْل

wamaa qataluuhu wamaa shalabuuhu termasuk didalamnya la ushallibannakum fi juduu'in-nakhli yakni di atas batang kurma, kata salib adalah al-mashluub (yg disalib), kata SALIB yg diambil oleh orang nasrani adalah atas perumpamaan tersebut.

Mang Odoy :
Lagi lagi ini adalah pengaruh TREND pada jaman Kamus Lisan Al-Arabi ini dibuat...karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Ibn Manzur sendiri di awal pembahasannnya tentang SHAD LAM BA...sama sekali tidak menyinggung bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA ini ada hubungannya dengan posisi si terhukum...
Mangkanya...kalo anda memang cukup PIAWAI dalam bahasa arab...saya sudah copas teks asli Lisan Al-Arabi perihal SHAD LAM BA ini...silahkan terjemahkan semuanya (dengan penuh kejujuran tentunya).....
Tunjukkan kepada saya dan semuanya...dimana pembahasan Ibn Manzur bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pada SHAD LAM BA...merujuk ke posisi si terhukum, atow BENTUK KAYU SILANG...
Silahkeennn....


وفي بعض الحديث: صَلَّيْتُ إِلى جَنْبِ عمر، رضي اللّه عنه، فَوضَعْتُ يَدِي على خاصِرتي، فلما صَلَّى، قال: هذا الصَّلْبُ في الصلاة. كان النبي، صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، يَنْهَى عنه أَي إِنه يُشْبِه الصَّلْبَ لأَنَّ الرجل إِذا صُلِبَ مُدَّ يَدُه، وباعُهُ على الجِذْعِ.

artinya: diterangkan dalam salah satu hadits: aku shalat disamping Umar ra. maka aku meletakkan tanganku di atas lambungku, setelah aku sholat, Umar berkata: "ini penyaliban dalam sholat, adalah Nabi saw melarang berbuat seperti itu demikian ini menyerupai salib, karena seorang laki-laki ketika disalib tangannya dipanjangkan dan mendepakannya diatas batang.

Mang Odoy:Siapa AKU dalam hadist diatas...???
Posisi dengan tangan diatas lambung...kok nyambung dengan posisi Yesus pake kancut yang sering di pajang di Gereja...???
Anehhhh.....

Silahkan dijawab....



coba mang jelasin ke pembaca2 apa maksudnya... monggo

Mang Odoy :Anda yang bawa kemari...silahkan tu disantap dulu pertanyaan saya...[/color]

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:Kamus Al-Muhith.

صَلَبَ يَصْلُبُ صَلْبًا:

- تِ الحُمَّى: اشتدَّتْ وطالت؛ صلبته الشمس/ صلبه الحَرُّ.

- اللَّحمَ: شواهَ واستخرج دسمه.

- الجانيَ: علَّقه ممدودَ اليدين مشدودَ الرِّجْلين.


Shalaba – yashlubu – shalban:
- Demam: sangat dan panjang, matahari sangat terik / sangat panas.
- Daging: memanggangnya dan mengeluarkan lemaknya.
- Pendosa: menggantungnya dengan membentangkan kedua tangannya dan menjulurkan kedua kakinya.

Mang Odoy :
Oke..kalo tetep "keukeuh" dengan pertanyaan ini..
Coba saya pengen tau...HUKUMAN yang diterangkan oleh kamus Al-Muhit dalam hal PENDOSA ini....hukuman pada jaman SIAPA...??? Musa-Isa atow Nabi Muhammad...???
Saya minta referensi yang jelas...

Karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Kamus Al-Muhit ini agak sedikit JANGGAL....jelas posisi seperti itu adalah POSISI YESUS/NABI ISA yang diyakini oleh UMAT KRISTEN yang sudah ketahuan KENA TEPU para PENDETA nya..karena menurut MANUSKRIP ASLI KITAB KANON yang berbahasa Yunani....posisi YESUS pun bukan seperti itu..
SIlahhkeennn....


bagian teks lisanul arabi

وما قَتَلُوه وما صَلَبُوه وفيه ولأُصَلِّبَنَّكم في جُذُوعِ النَّخْلِ أَي على جُذُوعِ النخل والصَّلِيبُ المَصْلُوبُ والصَّليب الذي يتخذه النصارى على ذلك الشَّكْل

wamaa qataluuhu wamaa shalabuuhu termasuk didalamnya la ushallibannakum fi juduu'in-nakhli yakni di atas batang kurma, kata salib adalah al-mashluub (yg disalib), kata SALIB yg diambil oleh orang nasrani adalah atas perumpamaan tersebut.

Mang Odoy :
Lagi lagi ini adalah pengaruh TREND pada jaman Kamus Lisan Al-Arabi ini dibuat...karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Ibn Manzur sendiri di awal pembahasannnya tentang SHAD LAM BA...sama sekali tidak menyinggung bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA ini ada hubungannya dengan posisi si terhukum...
Mangkanya...kalo anda memang cukup PIAWAI dalam bahasa arab...saya sudah copas teks asli Lisan Al-Arabi perihal SHAD LAM BA ini...silahkan terjemahkan semuanya (dengan penuh kejujuran tentunya).....
Tunjukkan kepada saya dan semuanya...dimana pembahasan Ibn Manzur bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pada SHAD LAM BA...merujuk ke posisi si terhukum, atow BENTUK KAYU SILANG...
Silahkeennn....


وفي بعض الحديث: صَلَّيْتُ إِلى جَنْبِ عمر، رضي اللّه عنه، فَوضَعْتُ يَدِي على خاصِرتي، فلما صَلَّى، قال: هذا الصَّلْبُ في الصلاة. كان النبي، صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، يَنْهَى عنه أَي إِنه يُشْبِه الصَّلْبَ لأَنَّ الرجل إِذا صُلِبَ مُدَّ يَدُه، وباعُهُ على الجِذْعِ.

artinya: diterangkan dalam salah satu hadits: aku shalat disamping Umar ra. maka aku meletakkan tanganku di atas lambungku, setelah aku sholat, Umar berkata: "ini penyaliban dalam sholat, adalah Nabi saw melarang berbuat seperti itu demikian ini menyerupai salib, karena seorang laki-laki ketika disalib tangannya dipanjangkan dan mendepakannya diatas batang.

Mang Odoy:Siapa AKU dalam hadist diatas...???
Posisi dengan tangan diatas lambung...kok nyambung dengan posisi Yesus pake kancut yang sering di pajang di Gereja...???
Anehhhh.....

Silahkan dijawab....



coba mang jelasin ke pembaca2 apa maksudnya... monggo

Mang Odoy :Anda yang bawa kemari...silahkan tu disantap dulu pertanyaan saya...[/color]

lho... ngapain nanya kesaya trus mang???? jelasin ke pembaca biar pendapat mang gak salah........

Mang Odoy :
Ya iyalahh...yang percaya 100% bahwa Hadist diatas adalah Lisan Nabi Muhammad kan anda...
Yang meyakini bahwa SALIB adalah SILANG kan anda...
Yang NGARANG..kalo MENYALIB artinya MENYILANG kan anda....
Ya siapa lagi yang harus MENJAWAB pertanyaan saya diatas....????..kan ANDA...
Jadi anda sendiri yang harus menjawab...

BISA JAWAB GAK....???


kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA menurut ibnu manzur adalah sesuatu yg keras

Mang Odoy:
Itu ajaa....????
Debat sudah berbulan bulan...yang nyangsang cuman segitu.... :D
.

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:Kamus Al-Muhith.

صَلَبَ يَصْلُبُ صَلْبًا:

- تِ الحُمَّى: اشتدَّتْ وطالت؛ صلبته الشمس/ صلبه الحَرُّ.

- اللَّحمَ: شواهَ واستخرج دسمه.

- الجانيَ: علَّقه ممدودَ اليدين مشدودَ الرِّجْلين.


Shalaba – yashlubu – shalban:
- Demam: sangat dan panjang, matahari sangat terik / sangat panas.
- Daging: memanggangnya dan mengeluarkan lemaknya.
- Pendosa: menggantungnya dengan membentangkan kedua tangannya dan menjulurkan kedua kakinya.

Mang Odoy :
Oke..kalo tetep "keukeuh" dengan pertanyaan ini..
Coba saya pengen tau...HUKUMAN yang diterangkan oleh kamus Al-Muhit dalam hal PENDOSA ini....hukuman pada jaman SIAPA...??? Musa-Isa atow Nabi Muhammad...???
Saya minta referensi yang jelas...

Karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Kamus Al-Muhit ini agak sedikit JANGGAL....jelas posisi seperti itu adalah POSISI YESUS/NABI ISA yang diyakini oleh UMAT KRISTEN yang sudah ketahuan KENA TEPU para PENDETA nya..karena menurut MANUSKRIP ASLI KITAB KANON yang berbahasa Yunani....posisi YESUS pun bukan seperti itu..
SIlahhkeennn....


bagian teks lisanul arabi

وما قَتَلُوه وما صَلَبُوه وفيه ولأُصَلِّبَنَّكم في جُذُوعِ النَّخْلِ أَي على جُذُوعِ النخل والصَّلِيبُ المَصْلُوبُ والصَّليب الذي يتخذه النصارى على ذلك الشَّكْل

wamaa qataluuhu wamaa shalabuuhu termasuk didalamnya la ushallibannakum fi juduu'in-nakhli yakni di atas batang kurma, kata salib adalah al-mashluub (yg disalib), kata SALIB yg diambil oleh orang nasrani adalah atas perumpamaan tersebut.

Mang Odoy :
Lagi lagi ini adalah pengaruh TREND pada jaman Kamus Lisan Al-Arabi ini dibuat...karena apa yang diterangkan oleh Ibn Manzur sendiri di awal pembahasannnya tentang SHAD LAM BA...sama sekali tidak menyinggung bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA ini ada hubungannya dengan posisi si terhukum...
Mangkanya...kalo anda memang cukup PIAWAI dalam bahasa arab...saya sudah copas teks asli Lisan Al-Arabi perihal SHAD LAM BA ini...silahkan terjemahkan semuanya (dengan penuh kejujuran tentunya).....
Tunjukkan kepada saya dan semuanya...dimana pembahasan Ibn Manzur bahwa kata SALIB yang berakar kata pada SHAD LAM BA...merujuk ke posisi si terhukum, atow BENTUK KAYU SILANG...
Silahkeennn....


وفي بعض الحديث: صَلَّيْتُ إِلى جَنْبِ عمر، رضي اللّه عنه، فَوضَعْتُ يَدِي على خاصِرتي، فلما صَلَّى، قال: هذا الصَّلْبُ في الصلاة. كان النبي، صلى اللّه عليه وسلم، يَنْهَى عنه أَي إِنه يُشْبِه الصَّلْبَ لأَنَّ الرجل إِذا صُلِبَ مُدَّ يَدُه، وباعُهُ على الجِذْعِ.

artinya: diterangkan dalam salah satu hadits: aku shalat disamping Umar ra. maka aku meletakkan tanganku di atas lambungku, setelah aku sholat, Umar berkata: "ini penyaliban dalam sholat, adalah Nabi saw melarang berbuat seperti itu demikian ini menyerupai salib, karena seorang laki-laki ketika disalib tangannya dipanjangkan dan mendepakannya diatas batang.

Mang Odoy:Siapa AKU dalam hadist diatas...???
Posisi dengan tangan diatas lambung...kok nyambung dengan posisi Yesus pake kancut yang sering di pajang di Gereja...???
Anehhhh.....

Silahkan dijawab....



coba mang jelasin ke pembaca2 apa maksudnya... monggo

Mang Odoy :Anda yang bawa kemari...silahkan tu disantap dulu pertanyaan saya...[/color]

lho... ngapain nanya kesaya trus mang???? jelasin ke pembaca biar pendapat mang gak salah........

Mang Odoy :
Ya iyalahh...yang percaya 100% bahwa Hadist diatas adalah Lisan Nabi Muhammad kan anda...
Yang meyakini bahwa SALIB adalah SILANG kan anda...
Yang NGARANG..kalo MENYALIB artinya MENYILANG kan anda....
Ya siapa lagi yang harus MENJAWAB pertanyaan saya diatas....????..kan ANDA...
Jadi anda sendiri yang harus menjawab...

BISA JAWAB GAK....???


kata SALIB yang berakar kata pad SHAD LAM BA menurut ibnu manzur adalah sesuatu yg keras

Mang Odoy:
Itu ajaa....????
Debat sudah berbulan bulan...yang nyangsang cuman segitu.... :D
.

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Ha ha ha...gak bisa jawab ya...????? :D

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????

Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!!!

Tambah pusing aja kayaknya Pak Ustat kita yang satu ini..... :D
Gara gara NGIKUTIN Kaum KRISTEN jaman Nabi Muhammad SAW (saat An-Nisa 157 diturunkan) dengan mengartikan kata SHALABUU-MENYALIB dengan arti MENYILANG.....

Saya tunggu JAWABAN anda atas PERTANYAAN yang saya ajukan.....kalo postingan abis ini muter lagi muter lagi...itu tandanya anda sudah ngibarin kutang warna putih.... :04:

Wasalam,

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Ha ha ha...gak bisa jawab ya...????? :D

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????

Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!!!

Tambah pusing aja kayaknya Pak Ustat kita yang satu ini..... :D
Gara gara NGIKUTIN Kaum KRISTEN jaman Nabi Muhammad SAW (saat An-Nisa 157 diturunkan) dengan mengartikan kata SHALABUU-MENYALIB dengan arti MENYILANG.....

Saya tunggu JAWABAN anda atas PERTANYAAN yang saya ajukan.....kalo postingan abis ini muter lagi muter lagi...itu tandanya anda sudah ngibarin kutang warna putih.... :04:

Wasalam,

lho.... insyallah semua pertanyaan mang dgn tdk sombong dan takabur bisa dijawab....

Mang Odoy:
Bagus kalo gitu..ditunggu jawabannya

ehm... bukannya mang berpendapat bahwa alat yg digunakan utk mengeksekusi nabi isa/ yesus adalah tiang pancang lurus???? mana ya referensi dalam lisanul arabi ibnu manzur???? monggo.....

Mang Odoy:
Betul itu pendapat saya...tapi anda gak baca ya permintaan saya yang ini....???
Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????
Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Ha ha ha...gak bisa jawab ya...????? :D

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????

Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!!!

Tambah pusing aja kayaknya Pak Ustat kita yang satu ini..... :D
Gara gara NGIKUTIN Kaum KRISTEN jaman Nabi Muhammad SAW (saat An-Nisa 157 diturunkan) dengan mengartikan kata SHALABUU-MENYALIB dengan arti MENYILANG.....

Saya tunggu JAWABAN anda atas PERTANYAAN yang saya ajukan.....kalo postingan abis ini muter lagi muter lagi...itu tandanya anda sudah ngibarin kutang warna putih.... :04:

Wasalam,

lho.... insyallah semua pertanyaan mang dgn tdk sombong dan takabur bisa dijawab....

Mang Odoy:
Bagus kalo gitu..ditunggu jawabannya

ehm... bukannya mang berpendapat bahwa alat yg digunakan utk mengeksekusi nabi isa/ yesus adalah tiang pancang lurus???? mana ya referensi dalam lisanul arabi ibnu manzur???? monggo.....

Mang Odoy:
Betul itu pendapat saya...tapi anda gak baca ya permintaan saya yang ini....???
Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????
Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!

numenonearth wrote:iya banyak Bullshitnya, tokoh utama bullshit, ajaran bullshit, sampe sekarang juga yang menyebarkan agama masih suka bullshit, sampe satu sama lain gak kompok dalam menerangkan satu ayat, arghh setuju aku bullshit, tapi masih banyak kok yang bullshit-bullshit coba deh liat disini
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https://murtadinkafirun.forumotion.com/t516-mani-wanita

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Ha ha ha...gak bisa jawab ya...????? :D

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????

Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!!!

Tambah pusing aja kayaknya Pak Ustat kita yang satu ini..... :D
Gara gara NGIKUTIN Kaum KRISTEN jaman Nabi Muhammad SAW (saat An-Nisa 157 diturunkan) dengan mengartikan kata SHALABUU-MENYALIB dengan arti MENYILANG.....

Saya tunggu JAWABAN anda atas PERTANYAAN yang saya ajukan.....kalo postingan abis ini muter lagi muter lagi...itu tandanya anda sudah ngibarin kutang warna putih.... :04:

Wasalam,

lho.... insyallah semua pertanyaan mang dgn tdk sombong dan takabur bisa dijawab....

Mang Odoy:
Bagus kalo gitu..ditunggu jawabannya

ehm... bukannya mang berpendapat bahwa alat yg digunakan utk mengeksekusi nabi isa/ yesus adalah tiang pancang lurus???? mana ya referensi dalam lisanul arabi ibnu manzur???? monggo.....

Mang Odoy:
Betul itu pendapat saya...tapi anda gak baca ya permintaan saya yang ini....???
Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????
Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:

hamba tuhan wrote:

mang odoy wrote:@HT

Ha ha ha...gak bisa jawab ya...????? :D

lho... napa bingung mang.... ayo copas kesini dari lisanul arabi ibnu manzur bahwa salib adalah tiang lurus......

Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????

Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!!!

Tambah pusing aja kayaknya Pak Ustat kita yang satu ini..... :D
Gara gara NGIKUTIN Kaum KRISTEN jaman Nabi Muhammad SAW (saat An-Nisa 157 diturunkan) dengan mengartikan kata SHALABUU-MENYALIB dengan arti MENYILANG.....

Saya tunggu JAWABAN anda atas PERTANYAAN yang saya ajukan.....kalo postingan abis ini muter lagi muter lagi...itu tandanya anda sudah ngibarin kutang warna putih.... :04:

Wasalam,

lho.... insyallah semua pertanyaan mang dgn tdk sombong dan takabur bisa dijawab....

Mang Odoy:
Bagus kalo gitu..ditunggu jawabannya

ehm... bukannya mang berpendapat bahwa alat yg digunakan utk mengeksekusi nabi isa/ yesus adalah tiang pancang lurus???? mana ya referensi dalam lisanul arabi ibnu manzur???? monggo.....

Mang Odoy:
Betul itu pendapat saya...tapi anda gak baca ya permintaan saya yang ini....???
Pernahkah saya mengeluarkan pernyataan bahwa MENYALIB (SHALABUU-USALLIB-YUSLABU)...artinya adalah NANGKRINGIN SI TERHUKUM DI SEBUAH INSTRUMEN (mau itu "+" "t" "X" atow "I" sekalipun).....??????
Dan SALIB menurut saya adalah KATA BENDA BERUPA TIANG LURUS/SILANG.....????
Silahkan cari pernyataan saya diatas...copas ke mari....!!

lho... trus drmn jg mang dapat referensi bahwa alat yg digunakan utk mengeksekusi nabi isa/ yesus adalah tiang pancang lurus????